MSNBC Meet the Press
Transcript for Nov. 21
Date: Updated: 11:13 a.m. ET Nov. 21, 2004
Guests: Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.): Member, Armed Services Committee; and Michael Scheuer, former CIA Senior Analyst, Anonymous Author, "Imperial Hubris"
Excerpt:
MR. RUSSERT: When you say "unqualified support for Israel," I received an e-mail from a former colleague of yours at the CIA and it said that Scheuer's basic premise is blame the Jews, that the reason we're in this fix is because of our support for Israel.
MR. SCHEUER: No, that's hardly the case. Indeed, the Arab-Israeli problem for so long was just a minor annoyance in the terms of our perception in the Muslim world.
MR. RUSSERT: When you say "politically correct debate," what are you talking about?
MR. SCHEUER: Yeah. What I'm talking about is an American landscape littered with politicians who have dared question our relationship with Israel. No one is advocating dumping Israel as an ally. We have, unfortunately for America, a long history of abandoning allies. But there is a perception in the Muslim world, and I think there's a perception on the part of many Americans, that the tail is leading the dog on this case. And perception, for better or worse, is often reality.
MR. RUSSERT: So what would you do?
MR. SCHEUER: I think we need to take a position with Israel that suits American interests.
MR. RUSSERT: Such as?
MR. SCHEUER: Such as perhaps being more insistent on some arrangement with the settlements. Certainly, no one is going to withdraw the protective umbrella of the United States, but at some point, Americans need to look after their own interests first.
MR. RUSSERT: But do you believe that being "tough on Israel" would in any way change Osama bin Laden's agenda or desire to destroy America?
MR. SCHEUER: His agenda is not to destroy America, Mr. Russert. He simply wants us out of his neighborhood. He wants us out of the Middle East. And I'm not--no, it would not change his agenda, but my point here is that America has a choice between war and endless war with the forces led by Osama bin Laden. And at some point, we need to take actions in our own interests that limit his ability to grow in power and popularity in the Muslim world.
MR. RUSSERT: But if America removes itself from the Middle East, isn't that appeasement to...
MR. SCHEUER: No, sir, I'm not suggesting that we remove ourselves from the Middle East. My book, if anything, is a hawkish statement that we have not nearly applied enough military power or intelligence power to our enemies. There is a great deal--and it's not very popular to say it--but there's a great deal of killing to be done. Some of the actions in the brilliant operation in Fallujah this week by the Marines is the kind of operation we're going to have to undertake, but the point is military and intelligence work by itself is never going to solve this issue. There has to be an economic component. There has to be at least a debate in the United States on the set of policies bin Laden has identified, and we need to make sure that those policies, which have been on autopilot for 30 years, still suit American interests.
MR. RUSSERT: Do you believe that if we are able to settle the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, it would neutralize some of the Muslim world?
MR. SCHEUER: I think it would. I definitely think it would limit the ability of bin Laden to continue to expand and influence.
Source
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